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	<title>Comments on: Mystical Spirituality</title>
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	<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/</link>
	<description>by Matthew Morine</description>
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		<title>By: Matt Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Vaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>About that we are in complete agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About that we are in complete agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-685</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Bible must be the starting point for correct spirituality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible must be the starting point for correct spirituality.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-684</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also, if spirituality is rooted in a false concept of God, man has a tendency to turn God into his own image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if spirituality is rooted in a false concept of God, man has a tendency to turn God into his own image.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-683</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am certainly not thinking of Christian mythic people from the past.  Sorry about this.  I am more thinking about new ageism.  Sorry about the confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am certainly not thinking of Christian mythic people from the past.  Sorry about this.  I am more thinking about new ageism.  Sorry about the confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Vaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 02:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org/?p=341#comment-675</guid>
		<description>You know how much I appreciate you and your blog. But I am with Ben. &quot;Mysticism&quot; is a huge term that encompasses a whole lot. It is very dangerous to boil it down to a few postmodern definitions.

I am curious as to where you are getting the idea that mysticism is based in a &quot;selfish&quot; worldview. The mystics that I read and that I talk are just about the most unselfish people I know--whether they are Catholic or Protestant. They love God more than anything--and that is why they are mystics. They want a mysterious union with him. Where does the idea of desiring unity with God include selfishness?

Have you read much mystical literature? Thomas Merton? Any pre-modern mystical literature? Julian of Norwich? Margery Kempe? Mechtild?

And if the idea of mysticism is not in the Bible, then what is 2 Corinthians 12? Sounds a lot like mysticism to me.

I think mysticism has a lot to offer us. We could learn a lot from them. Or do you disagree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know how much I appreciate you and your blog. But I am with Ben. &#8220;Mysticism&#8221; is a huge term that encompasses a whole lot. It is very dangerous to boil it down to a few postmodern definitions.</p>
<p>I am curious as to where you are getting the idea that mysticism is based in a &#8220;selfish&#8221; worldview. The mystics that I read and that I talk are just about the most unselfish people I know&#8211;whether they are Catholic or Protestant. They love God more than anything&#8211;and that is why they are mystics. They want a mysterious union with him. Where does the idea of desiring unity with God include selfishness?</p>
<p>Have you read much mystical literature? Thomas Merton? Any pre-modern mystical literature? Julian of Norwich? Margery Kempe? Mechtild?</p>
<p>And if the idea of mysticism is not in the Bible, then what is 2 Corinthians 12? Sounds a lot like mysticism to me.</p>
<p>I think mysticism has a lot to offer us. We could learn a lot from them. Or do you disagree?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Overby</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Overby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matthew,

Again, I think it&#039;s great you&#039;re stepping into this subject matter. The thing I&#039;d caution against (for what it&#039;s worth) is painting this subject with big sloppy brushes. Eastern mysticism is one thing, but the mystic spiritualism of the orthodox church, for example, is another. Christian mysticism stretches back to the desert fathers and beyond, and I&#039;ll assure you they we&#039;re not self-centered, but God centered. We all have only two choices--either we&#039;re mystics or moderns. Moderns think they&#039;ve got God totally figured out and Christianity is basically an &quot;outside&quot; thing. Mystics, however, realize there&#039;s much we don&#039;t understand, much we&#039;ll never understand, and we live from the inside out. A Modern has very little time for meditation on the hillside with Isaac (see genesis) or exploring the movements of the soul with the Psalmist (e.g., Ps. 42-42). A modern is to busy &quot;doing&quot; doing religious stuff to be still and know God, which really means to drop down into the self, to relax, to move below the surface noise and into the quiet of the spirit in order to know God. Centering for an eastern mystic is self-centered and dangerous. Centering for Christ-followers is healthy and the most profound form of prayer we&#039;ll ever experience. Modern&#039;s think lectio divina is a stupid waste of time, but for those of us who think God has a fresh word to speak to us through His word, we can easily place ourselves under the sway of the word--a word that according to the way Jews read Torah is filled with words each pregnant with meaning. 

Check out Centered Living by Basil Pennington and see if the practice doesn&#039;t move you into an intimacy with God otherwise impossible to grasp. You&#039;ll be pleasantly surprised to find it&#039;s both biblical and God-centered.

Also, The Cloud of Unknowing (author unknown), Dark Night of the Soul (John of the Cross), and even Ignatius of Loyola&#039;s Spiritual Exercises. You&#039;ll find in these writings much to enrich your life in Christ.

Grace to you, my brother,

Ben Overby
Rochester, NY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew,</p>
<p>Again, I think it&#8217;s great you&#8217;re stepping into this subject matter. The thing I&#8217;d caution against (for what it&#8217;s worth) is painting this subject with big sloppy brushes. Eastern mysticism is one thing, but the mystic spiritualism of the orthodox church, for example, is another. Christian mysticism stretches back to the desert fathers and beyond, and I&#8217;ll assure you they we&#8217;re not self-centered, but God centered. We all have only two choices&#8211;either we&#8217;re mystics or moderns. Moderns think they&#8217;ve got God totally figured out and Christianity is basically an &#8220;outside&#8221; thing. Mystics, however, realize there&#8217;s much we don&#8217;t understand, much we&#8217;ll never understand, and we live from the inside out. A Modern has very little time for meditation on the hillside with Isaac (see genesis) or exploring the movements of the soul with the Psalmist (e.g., Ps. 42-42). A modern is to busy &#8220;doing&#8221; doing religious stuff to be still and know God, which really means to drop down into the self, to relax, to move below the surface noise and into the quiet of the spirit in order to know God. Centering for an eastern mystic is self-centered and dangerous. Centering for Christ-followers is healthy and the most profound form of prayer we&#8217;ll ever experience. Modern&#8217;s think lectio divina is a stupid waste of time, but for those of us who think God has a fresh word to speak to us through His word, we can easily place ourselves under the sway of the word&#8211;a word that according to the way Jews read Torah is filled with words each pregnant with meaning. </p>
<p>Check out Centered Living by Basil Pennington and see if the practice doesn&#8217;t move you into an intimacy with God otherwise impossible to grasp. You&#8217;ll be pleasantly surprised to find it&#8217;s both biblical and God-centered.</p>
<p>Also, The Cloud of Unknowing (author unknown), Dark Night of the Soul (John of the Cross), and even Ignatius of Loyola&#8217;s Spiritual Exercises. You&#8217;ll find in these writings much to enrich your life in Christ.</p>
<p>Grace to you, my brother,</p>
<p>Ben Overby<br />
Rochester, NY</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewmorine.com/christianity/mystical-spirituality/341/comment-page-1/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org/?p=341#comment-662</guid>
		<description>Very insightful. This was a blessing to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very insightful. This was a blessing to read.</p>
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