The pot is calling the kettle black. I know Rex. He dislikes denominationalism, especially the sort claims it’s not a denominational group when all the rest of the world knows it is. As you noted, you are what you are. If you walk like a duck, quack lack a duck, and have feet like a duck–you’re a duck. The church of Christ fits the criteria. It’s a denomination. Of course, one can twist the definition to fit one’s preconceived notion, but then that just looks a bit desperate.

Ben Overbby

You said, “Perhaps God has actually been at work in leaders like Garrett and Ketcherside, Shelly and Cope to bring about some needed change among the CoC so that the CoC can continue to fulfill the purpose he has for the CoC.” Perhaps it is Satan himself that has been at work. The Lord’s return will answer that question.

I agree with you that we have gotten way off from what Matthew wrote about. rex just be honest with the brethren you work with. I know that you will. I don’t care for words like other tribes and such but I do understand what you are saying. Please, don’t take me as a mean spirited person.

First, I am not the only one whose preferance would be to drop the name “Church of Christ” on the sign. But that is all it is, a preferance. I never meant to immply that I hated the name “Church of Christ” on there.

Second, I am planning on leaving but not for that reason. But I do plan to find a congregation within the Restoration Movement where I am more theologically and practically suited for (and they are out there).

But I don’t understand why you would suggest I leave the denomination / fellowship of Churches of Christ. For starters, I know that the grass is not any greener on the other side. But even more, I do have a deep appreciation and love for the Churches of Christ and believe there are a lot of things that are “right/correct” about them. The issue of non-denominationalism / un-denominationalism (which I do understand) happens to be something I believe the Churches of Christ have generally been wrong on. But why leave? If every Christian leader among the CoC left for another tribe everytime they found something about the CoC they disliked, where would that leave the CoC? Perhaps God has actually been at work in leaders like Garrett and Ketcherside, Shelly and Cope to bring about some needed change among the CoC so that the CoC can continue to fulfill the purpose he has for the CoC (Not that I see my calling as a Christian leader on the same lever as any of the above mentioned names). So why suggest I leave? I suspect you disagree with some of the progressivism taking place within the CoC. If I am correct, would it be right for me to suggest you leave for another tribe (which I would never do)? Such a suggestion seems pretty dis-uniting itself.

Perhaps God has a purpose within this tribe for us all, traditional and progressive. For no matter who stays and who goes, the group known as Churches of Christ, like all other Christian tribes, will be a jar of clay and will only fulfill it mission and purpose by the grace and power of God.

If you mean by that that we should be trying to unite all Christians from restoration churches, reform churches, free churches, etc… I am all for that. In fact, since I believe God has already made us one, I just try to practice the reconciled fellowship that God has already given us. I do it twice of month when I meet with other ministers from Ithaca who belong to a whole variety of denominations/fellowships (d/f). I did it tonight when I spent time with the local “Young Life” group and served alongside some other youth leaders from a different “tribe” than mine (if you will).

Of course, practicing such unity is not without difficulty. But what I have found is that outside the Churches of Christ, there is considerable unity among a lot of other d/f’s. In my experience, it has generally been the Churches of Christ who are hesitant to practice fellowship beyond its own tribe, although that is changing (and we are not the only group with this problem). The question is whether or not we, the CoC, will learn to practice such unity and fellowship with the larger body of Christ like the early Restoration pioneers. I think this is doable without abandoning the restoration ideal, much like it is for, say a Reformed Church that practices such fellowship without giving up their Reformed Ideal (because they believe that ideal is thorougly biblical, just like we believe the restoration ideals are rooted in scripture).

Any ways, this has strayed from the original subject of this post so I will quit being persnickety about this .

Rex you call them denominations but they are not. They do not believe in denominationalism. They denounce denominationalism.

Rex allow me to make a suggestion: go to the elders or men of the congregation if there are no elders and be honest with them and leave that congregation. With your wants and wishes you will teach what you want to happen and division will occur. Then go and find a church that is a community church and apply for a job there. If unity is that important to you then leave before it becomes disunity. You and others will say, “they split the church but your wants and wishes will bring division. It will not take long for it to happen.

I do not say this with anger but you do not understand undenominational Christianity.

When you took this work did you feel this way? If so were you honest? If you have changed your mind about worship and organization be honest now.

Case in point… in my neck of the woods I attend a monthly meeting for preachers among Churches of Christ. However it is advertised as a meeting among the ‘church of Christ.’ Thus by definition it should be open to any preacher of the good news. But it is not. Instead it is open only to those who serve in a congregation of A Capella worship and who congregational name is “Church of Christ.” Thus the meeting is really only for those who serve in congregations that are part of a denomination that practices A Capella worship and identifies itself as the “Church(es) of Christ.”

I don’t like it and if I had my way, our congregation would just remove the name “Church of Christ” and call our selves something like the “Fall Creek Church” (we are one block from a creek named ‘Fall Creek’). But I don’t push for that because it would cause division and I believe congregation unity is more important than an issue like this, which even if I did have my way it would have little to no impact on our call to mission.

Any ways, I hope I am not sounding argumentive. I am not trying to be. I just believe we label other fellowships as denominational (in a very prejorative manner) when we are in fact guilty of the same offense. Again, the pot calling the kettle black.

We do not have to be anything except the body of Christ. That is not judging anyone. Yes, we do need to look in the mirror. When we do we will see our worst enemy. That still does not mean that we are a denomination.

Why have become afraid of just being the body/church of Christ. That’s all we need to be. What every one else does is their business. We are not judges but servants.

As for Churches of Christ being denominational or non-denominational/un-denominational (semantics)… We can deny being a denomination all we want and there will still be others who accuse us of being a denomination. Likewise, there are still other Christain fellowship who flatly deny being a denomination just as much as we do despite the accusation of being a denomination by others.

I hate denominationalism and secterianism, as neither ‘ism’ was intended to be a part of God’s family. But why do we (the CoC) continue to accuse every other Christain fellowship of denominationalism as though they always meet all the criterion for being such and we meet none of the criterion for such term? The CoC needs to take a good look in the mirror because to often we are simply the pot calling the kettle black. Sometimes I think we in the CoC just need to reinact Barton Stone’s “Last Will and Testament” and will this body, the Churches of Christ, to desolve into union with the church of Jesus Christ.